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lambandme
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Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...

by lambandme Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:41 am

style01 wrote:For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, each a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts set in a rectangle.

(A) each a roof of poles and arrowweed
(B) each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
(C) with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
(D) with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
(E) with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are




Hi, MGMAT experts, I still don't understand why A and B are logical in this case.

If you say "Majove live in shades, each a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by..." , you're saying that the dwelling = a roof of poles + arrow weed, but in fact a dwelling needs a lot more than a roof and some grass. So I thought using "with..." to add this information to "shades" was better than to equate "a roof and weed" with "shades".
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Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...

by RonPurewal Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:09 pm

lambandme wrote:If you say "Majove live in shades, each a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by..." , you're saying that the dwelling = a roof of poles + arrow weed, but in fact a dwelling needs a lot more than a roof and some grass.


no, not really -- read the sentence; the dwellings were "open-sided". i.e., they really were nothing more than a roof and some poles.

(remember that the mojave are a desert tribe; it gets pretty hot in the desert in summertime, and the mojave didn't have air conditioning.)
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Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...

by namnam123 Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:39 pm

pls, help.
I have 2 questions.

1. A is correct. I am not familiar with this sentence pattern. pls, explain this pattern.

2. prepositional phrase "with phrase" makes us troubles on gmat, pls, explain the its uses and give example for each case.

thank you.
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Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...

by abemartin87 Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:19 pm

Hey Ron,

Quick question,

Does the "Comma + Each" as well as "Comma + All/None/Some, etc"
always have to modify the noun before? They are not adjectival in the sense they can modify the entire clause. Am I correct?

"Comma + With" is generally used to modify the entire clause.

I ask because common sense would dictate that "each" must to refer to some noun. "Each cat had black stripes". We are talking about something concrete, an actual noun.

If I am correct, then why is it the case that "each" in choice (A) does not touch "dwelling places"?

Ron, as always, Thank you patience and guidance!
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Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...

by tim Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:07 pm

namnam:
1) what pattern are you referring to in particular? you have not made that clear in your question
2) what troubles are you having exactly? you need to be more clear about what you would like help with

Abe, "each" definitely needs to refer to a noun, but in this case it is in fact touching the noun it refers to - "shades". Note that "shades" is being offered as a synonym for "dwellings", so "each" should be able to attach just as easily to one as to the other..
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Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...

by thanghnvn Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:50 am

pls, help
In A, the correct answer, the phrase "each..." means each shade.... I am not farmiliar with this kind of phrase.

what is this phrase called?
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Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...

by RonPurewal Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:35 pm

thanghnvn wrote:pls, help
In A, the correct answer, the phrase "each..." means each shade.... I am not farmiliar with this kind of phrase.

what is this phrase called?


i think it's a type of "absolute phrase" -- but, to be honest, i don't know very many grammatical names.
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Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...

by thanghnvn Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:37 am

Thank you. Manhantan experts, members pls, help/ discuss

in the following problem, also from gmatprep

//Because of wireless service costs plummeting in the last year, and as mobile phones are increasingly common, many people// now using their mobile phones to make calls across a wide region at night and on weekends, when numerous wireless companies provide unlimited airtime for a relatively small monthly fee.

A. Because of wireless service costs plummeting in the last year, and as mobile phones are increasingly common, many people

B. As the cost of wireless service plummeted in the last year and as mobile phones became increasingly common, many people

C. In the last year, with the cost of wireless service plummeting, and mobile phones have become increasingly common, there are many people

D. With the cost of wireless service plummeting in the last year and mobile phones becoming increasingly common, many people are

E. While the cost of wireless service has plummeted in the last year and mobile phones are increasingly common, many people are

D is oa. and in this, "with..." dose not refer to "many people"

I think this "with"phrase can be called "absolute" phrase. I see, in the general grammar on the internet, that "absolute phrase has no syntactic relation with main clause". That is why "with ..." phrase in D dose not refer to "many people" . I think this question of GMATPREP shows that point in general grammar very clearly.

But in many places in general grammar in the internet I see the following

his hand strong, he keep the cup

and the first part of the sentence is called absolute phrase

similarly, there is a questions in OG 10

his righ hand and arm crippled...., Horace worked (question 86)

a similar thing in question 104, og 10

the diet of ordinary greek inclassical times was largely vegegarian-vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, with meat as a rarity.

The point I want to make is that, the phrase with preposition, separated by a comma may or may not refer to a noun in main clause. Is that right? we do not need to know the names of 2 phrases above, one phrase refering to a noun in main clause, another refering to no noun in main clause. Of course, both kinds of phrase are adverb and modify whole main clause.

is my thinking correct? Do we need to differentiate the two kinds of phrases above?

I see that by looking for minor errors, using grammar basics and comparison among answer choices, we can eliminate wrong answers and go to correct one without knowing hard grammar points such as above points.
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Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...

by RonPurewal Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:15 pm

thanghnvn wrote:The point I want to make is that, the phrase with preposition, separated by a comma may or may not refer to a noun in main clause. Is that right? we do not need to know the names of 2 phrases above, one phrase refering to a noun in main clause, another refering to no noun in main clause. Of course, both kinds of phrase are adverb and modify whole main clause.

is my thinking correct? Do we need to differentiate the two kinds of phrases above?


this is a good way to think -- it makes absolutely no difference what these kinds of things are called, as long as you know how they are used (and not used). in fact, i don't know any of their names, and i'm a professional writer and editor.
the only possible benefit i can see from knowing their names is the possibility of using google to look up more examples.
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Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...

by Jov Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:00 am

Hi team,

As Ron explained that in case of subgroup modifiers (Full sentence, each.....) we can only omit the verb to Be (is ,are , was, were).

When I read this sentence:

For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, each a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts set in a rectangle.

My understanding is

Each (dwelling) has a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts set in a rectangular.

Each (dwelling) is a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts set in a rectangular. (This sound does not sound right to me.)

Please explain why the first one is wrong and what I am missing in second one?
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Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...

by RonPurewal Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:38 am

The dwellings were open-sided.

Close your eyes and picture an "open-sided" dwelling. What does it consist of?
... A roof.
And some supporting structures.
And nothing else.

So, sure, it's accurate to say that each dwelling actually WAS "a roof...".
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Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...

by kedieez967 Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:08 pm

For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, each a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts set in a rectangle.

(A) each a roof of poles and arrowweed
(B) each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
(C) with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
(D) with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
(E) with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are

sorry for bumping the thread, i am confused by preposition modifier. In this question, comma with should modify the proceeding sentence, if we want to modify the preceding noun, generally the preposition modifier, as in choices d and e, does not need a comma in front of it.

Ron, am i right? please help me!
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Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...

by RonPurewal Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:45 am

the presence or absence of punctuation is not tested on this exam.

so, ANY question of the form "should there be a comma here?" is a non-issue.
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Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...

by gbyhats Fri May 08, 2015 12:52 pm

Hi dear Manhattan instructors :D

Is there anything wrong with choice (C) besides "being"?

Personally, I'm suspicious about "with each" -- it seems that "each" alone can do the job (Choice (A) shows)

I replicate the question below:

For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, each a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts set in a rectangle.

A. each a roof of poles and arrowweed
B. each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
C. with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
D. with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
E. with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are
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Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...

by RonPurewal Wed May 13, 2015 5:19 am

gbyhats wrote:Personally, I'm suspicious about "with each" -- it seems that "each" alone can do the job (Choice (A) shows)


your suspicion is justified!

since "each" works alone, you're talking about ALL of the dwellings.
"with" modifiers should describe only a component/aspect/sub-part of the previous observation; they shouldn't characterize the entire observation.

more on this idea here:
gas-electric-company-t7376-15.html#p102567
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