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Vinod
 
 

However much United States voters may agree that.....

by Vinod Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:43 pm

Hi I have a doubt in a question which goes as follows:

However much United States voters may agree that there is a waste in government and that the government as a whole spends beyond its means, it is difficult to find broad support for a movement towards a minimal state

a) However much United States voters may agree that
b) Despite the agreement among United States voters to the fact
c) Although United States voters agree
d) Even though United Staes voters may agree
e) There is agreement among United States voters that

Answer is a) which according to their explanation is because of parallelism. I agree to this, but, much is used for uncountable nouns. So isnt it wrong to use it for voters? I request you to explain to me the correct usage of much/many.
Tipu
 
 

by Tipu Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:32 am

Hi,

In the sentence that is mentione the usage of 'much' does not signify the number of voters but it pertains to the magnitude of agreement that the voters consort with. So the usage is correct.
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by RonPurewal Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:02 am

Tipu wrote:Hi,

In the sentence that is mentione the usage of 'much' does not signify the number of voters but it pertains to the magnitude of agreement that the voters consort with. So the usage is correct.


well said.

note also that there should NOT be a comma after 'that' in the original sentence (nor in any of the choices).

perhaps the easiest way to decide this question, though, is to notice the meaning of the original: the original sentence doesn't indicate in any way that there IS agreement among the voters. rather, it says simply that it is difficult to find broad support regardless of the extent of the voters' agreement.
remember that you can't change the meaning of the original, unless it is nonsense!
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Re: However much United States voters may agree that.....

by ntaksatorn Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:57 am

Can someone comment on the usage of "Even though" and "Although" in the beginning of the sentence? Are both considered to be correct on GMAT?
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Re: However much United States voters may agree that.....

by RonPurewal Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:53 am

ntaksatorn wrote:Can someone comment on the usage of "Even though" and "Although" in the beginning of the sentence? Are both considered to be correct on GMAT?


both of those appear in incorrect answers in this problem, so you should be circumspect about using this problem as any sort of evidence.

--

in general, "even though" must be followed by a complete clause (i.e., with a subject and verb), while it's possible for "although" to be followed by smaller constructions (such as adjectives).

meaning-wise, they are exactly the same.
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Re: However much United States voters may agree that.....

by t_n28 Sat May 08, 2010 6:59 pm

I have two questions, and would appreciate help with them!
1) why is the omission of that is incorrect in option D? is it because it violates the rule of parallelism (as that is apparent in the second half of the sentence after and), or is it because omitting that would change the meaning of the first part of the sentence?
2) the usage of may: however much united states voters may agree...., it IS difficult to find....
I thought since may indicates a hypothetical situation (we don't know for sure), "would be" is used instead of "is" here which made me think that I shouldn't go with any option that has may. (however much united states voters may agree...it WOULD BE difficult to find...) Would you please explain how may is okay to use here?
Thanks you!!
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Re: However much United States voters may agree that.....

by RonPurewal Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:44 pm

t_n28 wrote:I have two questions, and would appreciate help with them!
1) why is the omission of that is incorrect in option D? is it because it violates the rule of parallelism (as that is apparent in the second half of the sentence after and), or is it because omitting that would change the meaning of the first part of the sentence?


it's the former of these -- violation of parallelism.
the second half of the construction has the signal word "and" followed by "that the government as a whole spends...". therefore, the word "that" MUST be considered part of this parallel structure, so the left-hand half of the parallel structure must also contain "that".

2) the usage of may: however much united states voters may agree...., it IS difficult to find....
I thought since may indicates a hypothetical situation (we don't know for sure), "would be" is used instead of "is" here which made me think that I shouldn't go with any option that has may. (however much united states voters may agree...it WOULD BE difficult to find...) Would you please explain how may is okay to use here?
Thanks you!!


the second half of the sentence is not meant to indicate a hypothetical situation; the sentence intends to state AS A FACT that "it is difficult to find broad support for a movement towards a minimal state".

here's an analogy: let's say that i run a men's clothing store, and i state the following in an advertisement:
no matter how big or tall you may be, we have a suit for you.
this is the same sort of thing: in this advertisement, i am claiming that my store DEFINITELY has a suit for you, regardless of your size.
the same is happening in the sentence in this thread.
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Re: However much United States voters may agree that.....

by Anand0178 Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:06 am

Hi, what happens when much is replaced with many? Would it be valid sentence? Is there anyway to identify much is not suppose to identify "voters"? I'm still not clear, plz advise.

Second:- It seems to me that Even though has subject (voters) and may agree (verb), so why this usage is wrong in this particular case. Plz advise.
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Re: However much United States voters may agree that.....

by tim Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:27 pm

Anand0178,
Much is used as an adverb modifying agree in this sentence, and many is always an adjective - in this case it would modify voters if used. Your proposal to change the sentence in the way you describe would place the emphasis of the measure on the number of voters rather than the extent of the agreement, but I don't suppose that would make the sentence incorrect..
As for your second question, it is really hard to interpret what you are trying to say, but it sounds like you are asking about answer choice D and particularly about the underlined part in isolation from the rest of the sentence. The underlined part by itself is not wrong; the problem with D, as Ron already pointed out, is parallelism. This has nothing to do with the subject and verb you discussed in your post..
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Re: However much United States voters may agree that.....

by sumit_pune Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:53 am

can we replace "However much" to "No matter how much"
in this case sentence will be easy to understand.

can we make this Rule, general ?

I used to read post from you guys ( ManhattanStaff) , it is really helping me in SC , particularly posts of GOG , God of Grammar , RON.

Thanks alot for helping!!!
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Re: However much United States voters may agree that.....

by jatin.harsh Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:35 pm

Hi folks,

Could someone explain the part of speech of word "however"?

As per MGMAT SC, it's a conjunctive adverb and clause following it should be terminated by semi colon. Ain't the same rule be applicable to this ques too? Or am i missing something?

Regards
Jatin
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Re: However much United States voters may agree that.....

by namnam123 Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:03 am

Ron, pls, help.

The use of that in the construction VERB THAT CLAUSE is not absolute. Is that right?, I mean in some correct answer choices in other SC problems, I see gmat dose not use THAT.

this mean, in some case, I AGREE YOU COME HERE is correct and gmat tests other errors. We do not always need THAT.

this rule is similar to rule of AMBIGUITY OF PRONOUN.

is my thinking correct.
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Re: However much United States voters may agree that.....

by RonPurewal Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:07 am

sumit_pune wrote:can we replace "However much" to "No matter how much"
in this case sentence will be easy to understand.

can we make this Rule, general ?


as long as the construction is used as it is here, yes.

in other instances, you can't necessarily make the same substitution. for instance, "however much" is sometimes used as the object of a verb, in which case its use is similar to that of "as much as".
i am willing to pay however much it costs to get that thing.
= i am willing to pay as much as it costs to get that thing.
i'm not sure whether gmac would like the first of these (i.e., i don't know whether it would be tested on this exam), but these sentences are equivalent.
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Re: However much United States voters may agree that.....

by agautamdai Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:09 am

i got the answer right but could you please define what are the rules which govern the usage of despite in place of although or even though.

Are these equivalent
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Re: However much United States voters may agree that.....

by RonPurewal Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:56 pm

agautamdai wrote:i got the answer right but could you please define what are the rules which govern the usage of despite in place of although or even though.

Are these equivalent


post60591.html#p60591
Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete fare domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi

Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.
– Yves Saint-Laurent