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roller0081
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SC: Several financial officers of the company spoke

by roller0081 Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:03 pm



I came across this problem in GMATprep Practice Test 2:

Several financial officers of the company spoke on condition that they not be named in the press reports.

A. that they not be named
B. that their names will not be used
C. that their names are not used
D. of not having their names
E. of not naming them

I chose D because I thought D is perfect. I just thought A looks strange.
Does A use Subjunctive Mood? Do we have to use subjunctive mood in the clause "on condition that..."?

Many thanks,
Daisy
george.kourdin
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Re: SC: Several financial officers of the company spoke

by george.kourdin Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:24 pm

i got this wrong, but in hindsight, i think A is right because of subjunctive
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Re: SC: Several financial officers of the company spoke

by RonPurewal Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:08 am

roller0081 wrote:I just thought A looks strange.


it may sound strange -- the english subjunctive is not often heard in spoken language -- but it's a correct construction. if you read lots of formal english, you'll become more accustomed to seeing it.

Does A use Subjunctive Mood? Do we have to use subjunctive mood in the clause "on condition that..."?


yes and yes.
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Re: SC: Several financial officers of the company spoke

by sabharwal.bhavna Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:48 pm

I agree that the usage of subjunctive mood in A is correct. However, I felt that option B provides clear and unambiguous meaning. Why is the choice B not correct?
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Re: SC: Several financial officers of the company spoke

by RonPurewal Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:38 am

sabharwal.bhavna wrote:I agree that the usage of subjunctive mood in A is correct. However, I felt that option B provides clear and unambiguous meaning. Why is the choice B not correct?


see the post directly above yours. last part of the post.
Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete fare domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi

Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.
– Yves Saint-Laurent
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Re: SC: Several financial officers of the company spoke

by adelishakk Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:28 am

hi ron,

I understand that you have to use the command subjunctive for the bossy verb ' condition'.

however condition is the object of the preposition here . i.e on conditions, hence a noun. so how does the subjunctive apply here ?

thanks.
adel
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Re: SC: Several financial officers of the company spoke

by RonPurewal Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:05 am

adelishakk wrote:hi ron,

I understand that you have to use the command subjunctive for the bossy verb ' condition'.

however condition is the object of the preposition here . i.e on conditions, hence a noun. so how does the subjunctive apply here ?

thanks.
adel


not following you here -- this kind of "condition" is ALWAYS a noun. ("condition" can be a verb, but that verb doesn't mean anything like this.)

in any case, such nuances don't influence anything here; you just have to know what kinds of things (regardless of their particular forms) take these constructions.
e.g.
the boss demanded that steve show up early every friday.
the boss's demand that steve show up early every friday seems unreasonable.

--> same principle here. sure, "demand" is a verb in the first one and a noun in the second, but that doesn't change the context of the sentence.
Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete fare domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi

Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.
– Yves Saint-Laurent
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Re: SC: Several financial officers of the company spoke

by thanghnvn Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:17 am

pls, explain fully why choices B,C,D and E are wrong. Thank you
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Re: SC: Several financial officers of the company spoke

by RonPurewal Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:28 pm

thanghnvn wrote:pls, explain fully why choices B,C,D and E are wrong. Thank you


please narrow the scope of your question (i.e., ask about one or more specific constructions).
thanks.
Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete fare domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi

Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.
– Yves Saint-Laurent
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Re: SC: Several financial officers of the company spoke

by thanghnvn Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:00 pm

we use "doing" when the context of the sentence clearly show the subject/maker of "doing"

this point is why "having" and "naming" refer to "officers" in D and E and D and E are wrong.

is my thinking correct? please, confirm

this point is hard.
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Re: SC: Several financial officers of the company spoke

by thanghnvn Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:23 am

if noun exists for an action, we have to use the noun, not "doing of". we can use possessive with a general noun. This is a hard and fast rule.

"the attempt at gmat can bring good results" is good
"my attempt at gmat can bring good results" is good
"my trying at gmat can bring good results" is not acceptable.

if noun dose not exists, we have to use "doing of" to say about a general action. for example:

learning of gmat is good for any one.

question: can we use "doing" without "of " here.

"learning gmat is good for any one" is acceptable or not. is there any difference between 2 above sentences.

when a noun exists, we still have to use "doing" to show the action of specific person. for example

I learn gmat by trying to find the meaning distortion.

in this case, noun "attempt" exist, but we use "doing, trying" to show the action of specific person. we do not use "my attempt" because this use is wordy.

Pls, answer/confirm my quesiton/idea above. Thank you
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Re: SC: Several financial officers of the company spoke

by tim Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:57 am

thanghnvn wrote:we use "doing" when the context of the sentence clearly show the subject/maker of "doing"

this point is why "having" and "naming" refer to "officers" in D and E and D and E are wrong.

is my thinking correct? please, confirm

this point is hard.


the biggest problem with the participle in D and E is the preposition in front of the participle. again though, as Ron and I have told you countless times, one of the most harmful things you can do in your GMAT preparation is to try to reduce everything down to increasingly narrow and obscure rules. pay attention to what the words are doing in the sentence and how they fit together, and it should become clear to you that this sort of construction just doesn't happen in correct sentences..
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Re: SC: Several financial officers of the company spoke

by tim Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:00 am

thanghnvn wrote:if noun exists for an action, we have to use the noun, not "doing of". we can use possessive with a general noun. This is a hard and fast rule.

"the attempt at gmat can bring good results" is good
"my attempt at gmat can bring good results" is good
"my trying at gmat can bring good results" is not acceptable.

if noun dose not exists, we have to use "doing of" to say about a general action. for example:

learning of gmat is good for any one.

question: can we use "doing" without "of " here.

"learning gmat is good for any one" is acceptable or not. is there any difference between 2 above sentences.

when a noun exists, we still have to use "doing" to show the action of specific person. for example

I learn gmat by trying to find the meaning distortion.

in this case, noun "attempt" exist, but we use "doing, trying" to show the action of specific person. we do not use "my attempt" because this use is wordy.

Pls, answer/confirm my quesiton/idea above. Thank you


i'm really not sure what in your post constitutes a question and what constitutes an unsupported assertion. either way, i cannot stress enough (and both Ron and i have, dozens of times) that you need to focus less on rules and more on learning how proper English is written. most of the issues you struggle with will become incredibly clear as you gain the requisite experience with the language. no list of rules, no matter how detailed, will ever replace this imperative..
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Re: SC: Several financial officers of the company spoke

by gauravtyagigmat Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:47 pm

question 1.How do i know that certain word is bossy and that word will work with command subjunctive..

Question 2.Even there are words which accept both command subjunctive and infitive.how do I distinguish among them.for example "require"

Tim wrote:the biggest problem with the participle in D and E is the preposition in front of the participle


question 3.Can you please explain why can't we write preposition in front of participle.
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Re: SC: Several financial officers of the company spoke

by tim Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:03 pm

For 1 and 2, you just have to learn them from experience. Most of this experience is acquired through years of reading and listening to English. For question 3, all prepositions require a noun to be an object.
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